135 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

But for attackers only. In return give a bonus when a planet is conquered to all attackers.

Give no reward for ghost drops and make the matches last the full 30 minutes.

Cost/benefit, risk/reward.

[GreyNovember]

So... limit playtime? For what purpose?

[oldradagast]

Repair and Rearm, if done right, could be very interesting and add real depth to the game.

We're not at that point - heck, we still have ghost drops, PUG stomps, a lack of coms, and a ton of other issues - but I like the idea... but if it is set up to discourage risk and effort, it won't work out. We don't need more folks camping on defense and only ghost dropping to win planets.

[wanderer]

Ted Wayz, on 13 January 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

But for attackers only. In return give a bonus when a planet is conquered to all attackers.

Give no reward for ghost drops and make the matches last the full 30 minutes.

Cost/benefit, risk/reward.

So in other words, you'd like to make CW spacepoor-free. On top of the Paulconomy.

Who'd bother?

[Rhaythe]

I'm conflicted. I want R&R back. But, I see repair/rearm as a rich-get-richer thing. New players will suffer the most, while experienced players that can stay alive the whole game (or cowards that just flee and shut down as soon as the score is slightly lopsided) will start raking in even more c-bills when they aren't spending as much on repairs (assuming, of course, c-bill earnings go up with R&R. Otherwise.... yikes!)

[JadeTimberwolf]

I am not that opposed to repair and rearm costs, have to deal with that in Wot, WoWP, and WT. But the costs should affect both attackers and defenders and if one side is forced to ghost drop, well it's not their fault so don't punish them.

[Tarogato]

I'm all for bringing back R&R for CW only. Would help discourage rushing as well, since you get low rewards for rushing instead of fighting.

/signed.

[Khobai]

cbill earnings are already pathetic as is with it taking hundreds of matches to buy one assault mech. the last thing we need is lower earnings.

repair and rearm would add absolutely nothing beneficial to the game. its just a tax on earnings and nothing more.

[Roadbeer]

Khobai, on 13 January 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

cbill earnings are already pathetic as is with it taking hundreds of matches to buy one assault mech. the last thing we need is lower earnings.

You do realize that you're playing a game set in a dystopian future, where the metal is worth more than the meat inside it, where an Atlas has more intrinsic value than the entire population of a small planet and that a Battlemech is a birthright handed down from generation to generation?

Of course you don't. You're playing Pokemech

Khobai, on 13 January 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

repair and rearm would add absolutely nothing beneficial to the game. its just a tax on earnings and nothing more.

You mean, aside from a Risk to go with all that meaningless reward?

Edited by Roadbeer, 13 January 2015 - 07:35 PM.

[Davers]

[q

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

You do realize that you're playing a game set in a dystopian future, where the metal is worth more than the meat inside it, where an Atlas has more intrinsic value than the entire population of a small planet and that a Battlemech is a birthright handed down from generation to generation?

Of course you don't. You're playing Pokemech

Honestly this bit of lore doesn't seem to fit in with any part of the BT universe. How many mercs sold their Battlemechs and bought a planet? How many wars were fought without risking all the 'incredibly rare and irreplaceable' Battlemechs? How is it that within less than 10 years the entire IS replaced their old mechs with more expensive, new and improved designs if they are so rare they are hand-me downs? It's kind of like 'gauss rifles are rare', but they invented whole new chassis to carry them because they had so many laying around. No matter whatever destructive wars were fought, everyone always had new and upgraded Battlemechs to take into the next storyline.

[Roadbeer]

Davers, on 13 January 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

[q

Honestly this bit of lore doesn't seem to fit in with any part of the BT universe. How many mercs sold their Battlemechs and bought a planet? How many wars were fought without risking all the 'incredibly rare and irreplaceable' Battlemechs? How is it that within less than 10 years the entire IS replaced their old mechs with more expensive, new and improved designs if they are so rare they are hand-me downs? It's kind of like 'gauss rifles are rare', but they invented whole new chassis to carry them because they had so many laying around. No matter whatever destructive wars were fought, everyone always had new and upgraded Battlemechs to take into the next storyline.

Yeah, thats always been a kind of disconnect between authors and the game itself.

[Chocowolf Sradac]

While not a bad idea in concept PGI has quite a few issues with CW that need to be immediately addressed before adding features to make it not broken like what it currently is

[Davers]

R&R makes no real sense in the game, other than a tax for playing. What is R&R supposed to even do?

Limit ballistic builds? I thought energy weapons were the best ones around?

Limit assault mechs? I thought tonnage limits did that?

Limit advanced tech? So only the Clanners get DHS? And since Clanners don't have a 'low tech' option should they just flat out earn substantially more Cbills than IS?

I know R&R was in previous MW games, but everyone has tons of mechs and Cbills when the game was over, right? It was only there to give a sense of advancement. As you progressed you earned more in every mission. This is not the case in MWO.

[Tarogato]

The rewards for CW matches are already low. In some missions in other installments of Mechwarrior you could make 2,000,000 C-Bills for a single mission.

I think CW rewards should be increased significantly with the inclusion of R&R. The higher reward would also create incentive for more players to participate in CW.

Edited by Tarogato, 13 January 2015 - 07:55 PM.

[AEgg]

Paying for repairs serves absolutely no purpose except to decrease earnings overall. If you want that, just argue for a 50% cbill cut to everybody or something, it'd have the same effect.

Repair and rearm is actually worse than a flat cbill cut, because it encourages people to hurt their team by bringing the cheapest equipment they can, running away rather than fighting for the win, etc. Even if you increase earnings when you add repair costs, the negative effects are still there. People will do whatever they can to earn the most they can. And doing that in many cases hurts their team (hiding, bringing cheap equipment, etc.)

You CANNOT balance anything with repair and rearm. Those that either spend real money or play for six hours a day will keep running the best stuff anyway. So all you can accomplish is making games even more lopsided.

Edit: Were there a shared income and salvage system for factions/units, then that becomes a different issue. If your match rewards are sent to a shared pool used by your unit, then taking repair costs out of that makes sense. That would actually limit technology use to an extent, and if income were shared there's no incentive to lose the match to save some cbills since you wouldn't get them anyway. But that kind of system is unlikely. I seriously doubt PGI would ever introduce a system where you couldn't use purchased mechs.

Edited by AEgg, 13 January 2015 - 08:05 PM.

[meteorol]

Bring back r&r and mwo will simply kneel over and die.
80% cbill bonus on paying customers and the ability to simply buy cbills really kills any intention of balancing this game via cbills

[Khobai]

Quote

You do realize that you're playing a game set in a dystopian future, where the metal is worth more than the meat inside it, where an Atlas has more intrinsic value than the entire population of a small planet and that a Battlemech is a birthright handed down from generation to generation?

What exactly is your point? that the game should have a steep grind and be less enjoyable because its more realistic that way? because thats an absolutely terrible justification.

grinding is not enjoyable. and having to play hundreds of games to buy a single assault mech is definitely an excessive grind. worse yet is the game's atrocious skill system requiring you to buy three mechs just to master one of them.

IMO, if this game wants to attract new players and retain them then the cbill economy and skill system both need to be revamped.

Quote

You mean, aside from a Risk to go with all that meaningless reward?

what risk? I have half a billion cbills. you think repair and rearm is going to phase me in the slightest?
its only going to punish players who arnt rich like me. its a poor tax. plain and simple.

players who have cbills will continue to play the game as they always have. players without cbills are the ones that will change their playstyles to deal with R&R losses... and it will be to the detriment of the game not to its betterment.

Now let me explain what the purpose of cbills actually is. the purpose of cbills is to incentivize free players to continue playing the game to improve the experience for paid players. cbills were never meant to be a balancing tool and using cbills as a balancing tool will only serve to frustrate players by taxing their income. Less free players consequently means less paid players and the game as a whole will suffer.

What MWO actually needs is the opposite of R&R. It needs to attract more players and retain them. That means more incentives and less grinding. The game also needs more freedom to play whatever mech or playstyle you want. It does not need its freedom constricted by being forced to play a certain way to avoid repair taxes.

Edited by Khobai, 13 January 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Khobai, on 13 January 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

games should be enjoyable. grinding is not enjoyable.

The millions of players of World of Warcraft would like to have a word with you

[wanderer]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

You do realize that you're playing a game set in a dystopian future, where the metal is worth more than the meat inside it, where an Atlas has more intrinsic value than the entire population of a small planet and that a Battlemech is a birthright handed down from generation to generation?

You do realize that started reversing itself around the point where the Helm core started getting unraveled, right? In fact, by 3050 although a 'Mech is still a very valuable piece of hardware and the market was definitely a seller's one, production had increased immensely as old factories once held together with baling wire and bubble gum had been restored to functionality courtesy of the recovered knowhow on their construction. It's been over 20 years since the Helm Core recovery in 3028 at this point, and the Clan invasion only pushed this to even more frenzied investment in getting more and improved giant robots out on the range. The Clan invasion was very good at wrecking many of those heirloom, centuries-old machines even as the "3050 generation" rolled off the lines in numbers that exceeded them.

The 'Mech population increases in leaps and bounds as the lostech reversal makes it's way out even into the Periphery, where even the smaller nations begin large-scale production of 'Mechs in numbers not seen since the Rim Worlds got wrecked by Kerensky and company. It's a trend that doesn't stop until the Republic of the Sphere- and even then, the Houses were making more and mothballing them under the table despite the Republic reclamations, and the Periphery nations didn't give a flying fig.

Heck, Marik with it's lack of Clan-held borders was one of the main forces behind said populations increasing, as they made a healthy killing both producing their own 'Mechs in renewed production facilities AND exported a ton of parts used in refits and new machines across the Inner Sphere.

[Kjudoon]

It is absolutely imperitive/essential/neccessary for R&R to return for CW. The particulars need to be massaged, but yes, R&R returns.

I would suggest benefits for being a loyalist, defender and holding certain battle sectors as well to make specific battles and held sectors to be important and influence the course of battle.